Interview with Mandy Marshall, Tearfund

Jo Taylor managed to book some time with Mandy Marshall, Tearfund’s Gender Advisor in her hectic diary, packed with lunchtime runs, advisory groups, policy meetings and report writing. Mandy is clearly hard-working, dedicated and passionate. They had a chat about how the world looks through the eyes of a woman committed to the poor and marginalised, and we even found some time to chat about ‘the F word.’

So Mandy, how did Tearfund come to appoint a gender advisor?
Tearfund adopted its gender policy in 1998, but realised that they had not moved forward very much in that area and wanted to. Without a person in post the issue was being lost in the organisation. Tearfund’s commitment to gender and seeing gender mainstreamed across the organisation led them to appoint an advisor, demonstrating how important the issue is of trying to restore relationships between men and women.

And what attracted you to that post?
It goes down to the essence of who I am: I’m really passionate about restoring justice; I’m really passionate about restoring relationships. And this role brings together those two aspects. Gender issues affect justice; the legal, national and global areas of having a protection framework in place, that provides rights and support to both men and women equally.

As a Christian in that role, it’s about bringing the love of God into those relationships and seeing restored relationships as God intended them which is at the heart of Tearfund gender policy; restoring harmony and not hierarchy.

What does your job involve?
All sorts! It can involve general advice and support to our staff here or to our partners overseas, or advising the chief executive or the leadership team as to how their polices operate internally. I also try and influence the wider arena, so I chair the Micah Network gender forum, for example, which is a global partnership of organisations working on development issues, trying to encourage them to take the issues of men and women seriously in their work and look at how the different needs of men and women affect their projects. And it involves training and support. A lot of it is done by email, but it also involves visits overseas recently including DRC, Liberia and a few countries in central Asia, as well.

Has there been one moment or experience that really defines what you do?
I was in Liberia, delivering training for our programme staff, and I visited one of our projects. There were 30-40 men and three women and I was training them all on gender for the day. I did the usual stuff, starting with Tearfund’s belief statement, that men and women are created equally. I hadn’t really finished that sentence when three men were standing up with their Bibles open, pointing and shouting at me telling me, “Let me tell you what the Bible actually says.” It was a very aggressive response initially.

I took a very inclusive approach, rather than just reacting and tried to engage with them in what the Bible actually says about restoring relationships. At the end of the day one man stood up and said, “I’m ashamed of myself. I realise now that I haven’t been treating women as equals. And I want to change.” Before the end of the time that I led he said that he hadn’t included women in leading devotions and he wanted to change that. Before I actually left the place he had already asked and encouraged one of the women to do so.
For me, what I saw right there, encourages me and gives me hope that once people see a picture of equality and restoration of relationships, they will realise the importance of it. And that was just absolutely inspirational, seeing a man realise the benefit of holding women as equals and bring about change right there and then - a small step that will hopefully lead to larger steps in the future.

What is life like for women around the world – particularly Christian women?
1% of the world’s land is owned by women. More women are killed by domestic partner violence, gender-based violence, than die of cancer, road traffic accidents, malaria and TB combined. There are huge issues of access to health care. All sorts of different issues impact on women and make life really, really tough. A lot can be done by drawing the balance of justice and allowing women, for example, to inherit land from their husbands when they die, giving them a basis of security, a firm foundation for bringing up a family.
The reality is that men and women aren’t treated equally globally, not just internationally but also in the UK. Let’s look at the UK’s Equal Pay Act. It’s been in place for thirty years and yet the statistics released year after year show that women are still paid less for the same role in the same organisation. Why is that? That’s not about the law, that’s about attitudes and that’s what we need to change.

What would you say to people who say that feminism is outdated and that women who complain about inequality are just whinging?
I would say that they need to open their eyes and look a little deeper at what’s around them. If we just glance and don’t really look we see, like I’ve just mentioned, the Equal Pay Act, and think ‘well what’s the problem’? But it’s not being outworked - people aren’t choosing to do that. There must be an inherent bias in there somewhere otherwise we would have that equal pay. The global situation that I also mentioned earlier demonstrates that life is much tougher for women. That is reality.

Feminism, I think, has had a bad name over the years because it has been linked to those pioneers that led the way and were quite forceful in communicating a new and radical agenda. We have forgotten how tough it has been for them and we need to celebrate what they did, because they achieved a lot in their lifetimes.

But the issue certainly isn’t over; why are we still debating whether we should have women bishops, for example? The debate should have been over years ago: if we really think that men and women are equal before God then that issue should be a non-issue. Within the church there is discrimination about what women can and cannot do. And so it’s still real; it’s still live in the UK and absolutely more so where those inherent theological viewpoints, rooted in a misinterpretation of the Bible result in the subjugation of women. In some cultures, this viewpoint actually results in acceptable beating of women and gender-based violence. Hidden gender-based violence in the UK church is not an issue of the past: it’s happening in our churches. We need to speak out and give people space to bring these issues into the light and actually start to restore relationships as God originally intended them to be.

So do you think it’s ok for a Christian to be a feminist?
I think more of us should reclaim that title and call ourselves feminists, because feminism is about saying that ‘I believe that men and women are equal’. We need to reclaim a term that has been lost and vilified and actually put it back in its rightful place. Jesus was a feminist; he had a radical relationship with women. In the eyes of God, men and women are equal – God is a feminist.

Alan Storkey, husband of Tearfund president Dr Elaine Storkey was asked once “What’s it like being married to a feminist?” and his response was, “Well, I don’t know you’d have to ask my wife.” Male or female, we don’t have to be afraid or ashamed of calling ourselves ‘feminist.’

Do you think things are getting better for women?
Oh, absolutely. I’d been working on an international project looking at gender, HIV and AIDS and the role of the church in Zimbabwe and Burkina Faso. When we did the original research we came across alarming attitudes. From a pastor in Zimbabwe we heard, “I expect my wife to bow down before me as I bow down before Christ.” In Burkina Faso the wife of a Christian told us, “my husband treats me like a beast and an animal: he comes in, has sex and leaves.” As a result over the last two years, Tearfund has supported a project in trying to challenge and change those attitudes. They are culturally appropriate, run by local churches and organisations. We gave them funding to do whatever they wanted and some of them just did marriage seminars.

We went back to Burkina Faso in April to see what had been going on. The pastor of the church said, “We were in darkness and now we are in light. It has totally transformed our relationships.” The men say that they now have a better relationship with not just their wife, also their children. They pray together, they discuss household budgets together. It’s simple things that we take for granted but have transformed their lives. The women are saying that they have better sex lives. Sex is a gift from God and is now celebrated in its rightful place in a married relationship. For me that’s great in the context of HIV and AIDS because it shows that women are able to control access over their own bodies.

In your experience, how does the international situation reflect what is going on in the UK?
The only difference I see is that internationally the issues are much more obvious, whereas in the UK it tends to be behind closed doors. Like I said before, gender-based violence is real and it’s happening in our churches, but we don’t talk about it from the pulpit. HIV/AIDS is an issue in the UK church but we’re not talking about it. In terms of negative attitudes and opinions towards women, we tend to hide them better, so we don’t tackle them head on.

In terms of the legal framework, women are better protected in the UK but as I said before it is attitudes that do the damage and that we need to challenge.

What do you think is the biggest challenge facing Christian women?
The challenge of being seen as equal. We saw in the recent debate about women bishops, there are still people that think that women should not be in leadership. Both Christian men and women need to join in the debate and look at how we can treat people with equal value, dignity, respect and with equal opportunities to display their spirituality and gifts. If we sideline women then we’re missing out on 50% of what God has given the church. No one else can be me, and no one else can be you. Every single person should have the opportunity to be the person that God created them to be and that requires a release from gender stereotypes.

How has your job influenced the way you see the world and your everyday life?
I have realised afresh that I’m passionate about justice and passionate about restoring relationships. This has reaffirmed all of what was in me inherently. It impacts everything I do, it’s constantly challenging me: am I allowing people to be all who God created them to be? How is what I am doing restoring relationships? Am I bringing a restoration of justice? Am I bringing a restoration of relationships in what I am doing? How is my whole attitude being loving and displaying Christ out to these around me? So it impacts all of my life, not just my job here at Tearfund.

How can people reading this article move forward with this, if they feel similarly passionate about justice and the issue of gender equality?
I think the first thing to do is jump in and actually deal with the issue, look at the theology about gender and women in the Bible. Link in with other networks and events. Check your own attitudes. Spend time figuring out why you believe what you do and how that impacts on your relationships. Start with yourself and push outwards.

Take comfort in sharing your stories of success because success stories are a real encouragement for you to keep going, especially when you are being blocked at every turn. Actually there is hope and that hope will help you persevere.

Look at the issues in your own church. Is there space for people to talk about violence that they might be seeing? Can you address any inequality that you see and the hurt it may be causing to men and women?

And of course at Tearfund, we are working hard to address this international issue for the church and we would very much welcome people supporting us in prayer, through the prayer website. There is also a fund set up for gender work and women empowerment projects if people feel led to give. Some may also want to go on a Transform team and see the reality of life overseas and engaging in poverty. Social Justice and Christian work are absolutely intertwined. We are a body of Christ globally and where a part of the body is hurting then the rest of the body is weak. We can actually help other people that are hurting, and it’s a privilege to work with Tearfund who seek to alleviate the body of that pain.

Further reading/resources
Woman in the Bible: An Overview of All the Crucial Passages on Women's Roles by Mary J Evans, IVP
Tearfund’s website: www.tearfund.org
Lots of useful resources on equality and gender in development –
http://tilz.tearfund.org/Topics/Gender/gender+useful+resources.htm Tearfund’s policy document on gender and development can be downloaded from the bottom of that page.

Jo Taylor is employed by Tearfund as London Youth Co-ordinator and is also on the leadership team of Anya UK, a network that seeks to encourage and resource intentional investment in young women.

Comments

[Dannijella Dragas]

wonderful heartfelt and open commented on a very touch subject.

Thank you so much for sharing.

Keep up the great work.

[Dannijella Dragas]

Many jobs and career paths that most people take do not lead to a rewarding spiritual daily life. This is a blessing to feel the rewards personally as well as in this professional position.

I hope that this article brings enlightenment to many, thank you for sharing your story.

Dannijella Dragas